Discussion Proposal: Specifications about panels and widgets

[IFo Hancroft]

Hello,

I would like to start a discussion whether there should be a
specifications regarding panels and widgets.
I think there should be and my reasons to have this view are the following:

1. It is not agreed on whether a panel should provide the taskbar/task
manager, menu, tray, widgets.
2. Widgets among panels and in general are not interchangable. For
example, KDE's panel widgets can also be put on the desktop.
3. Should panel and desktop widgets be a different thing?

What do you think?

Best Regards,
IFo Hancroft

[Simon McVittie]

Post by IFo Hancroft
It is not agreed on whether a panel should provide the taskbar/task
manager, menu, tray, widgets.

This is a UX design question. If one desktop environment's designers
think there should be a panel with a list of running applications (a
taskbar), and another desktop environment's designers think there should
not, then they are not going to agree on a specification that tries to
require or forbid a taskbar: at least one set of designers would object
to that specification.

Desktop environments have different UI/UX designs, and that's a good
thing, because different users have different preferences for the UI/UX
they want to use. Some people want a panel with a taskbar, and they should
choose a desktop environment that (at least optionally) provides one.
Other people don't want a panel with a taskbar, and they should choose
a desktop environment that (at least optionally) doesn't provide one.

Similar considerations apply to various other UI/UX features.

What is it that you aim for desktop environments to agree on?

One of the major topics for freedesktop.org is arranging that an
application that wants to do something can use the same code for multiple
desktop environments (for instance, an application can get itself listed
among other applications by installing a single .desktop file that works
approximately the same in GNOME, KDE, etc., instead of having to install
a .gnomeapp file and a .kdeapp file and so on). What application-facing
functionality do you aim to standardize?

(In particular, when an application installs a .desktop file, there is
no guarantee that it will be presented in the same way in all desktop
environments: KDE shows it among other apps in a hierarchical menu,
whereas GNOME shows it among other apps in a flat, searchable list in
the overview. Both are equally acceptable from the point of view of
the Desktop Entry specification, and whether you prefer KDE's design or
GNOME's design should be a factor in whether you choose to use KDE or
GNOME or something else.)

smcv

[IFo Hancroft]

What I am hoping to achieve with this, is widget and panel interoperability.

Post by Simon McVittie

Post by IFo Hancroft
It is not agreed on whether a panel should provide the taskbar/task
manager, menu, tray, widgets.

This is a UX design question. If one desktop environment's designers
think there should be a panel with a list of running applications (a
taskbar), and another desktop environment's designers think there should
not, then they are not going to agree on a specification that tries to
require or forbid a taskbar: at least one set of designers would object
to that specification.
Desktop environments have different UI/UX designs, and that's a good
thing, because different users have different preferences for the UI/UX
they want to use. Some people want a panel with a taskbar, and they should
choose a desktop environment that (at least optionally) provides one.
Other people don't want a panel with a taskbar, and they should choose
a desktop environment that (at least optionally) doesn't provide one.
Similar considerations apply to various other UI/UX features.
What is it that you aim for desktop environments to agree on?
One of the major topics for freedesktop.org is arranging that an
application that wants to do something can use the same code for multiple
desktop environments (for instance, an application can get itself listed
among other applications by installing a single .desktop file that works
approximately the same in GNOME, KDE, etc., instead of having to install
a .gnomeapp file and a .kdeapp file and so on). What application-facing
functionality do you aim to standardize?
(In particular, when an application installs a .desktop file, there is
no guarantee that it will be presented in the same way in all desktop
environments: KDE shows it among other apps in a hierarchical menu,
whereas GNOME shows it among other apps in a flat, searchable list in
the overview. Both are equally acceptable from the point of view of
the Desktop Entry specification, and whether you prefer KDE's design or
GNOME's design should be a factor in whether you choose to use KDE or
GNOME or something else.)
smcv
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[Simon Lees]

Post by IFo Hancroft
What I am hoping to achieve with this, is widget and panel interoperability.

While this is possibly technically possible it would really require
every desktop rewriting there widgets / panels to use the same modular
plugin system, this would be much more complex given that currently even
basic things like strings are done completely differently between
toolkits it would be huge amounts of extra work with significant
performance decreases, you then also need to look at sandboxing because
a problem enlightenment has found is if your using C modules for this
and one crashes it will tend to crash the whole desktop.

So while this is technically possible I don't see any desktop developers
agreeing then implementing something.

Post by IFo Hancroft

Post by Simon McVittie

Post by IFo Hancroft
It is not agreed on whether a panel should provide the taskbar/task
manager, menu, tray, widgets.

This is a UX design question. If one desktop environment's designers
think there should be a panel with a list of running applications (a
taskbar), and another desktop environment's designers think there should
not, then they are not going to agree on a specification that tries to
require or forbid a taskbar: at least one set of designers would object
to that specification.
Desktop environments have different UI/UX designs, and that's a good
thing, because different users have different preferences for the UI/UX
they want to use. Some people want a panel with a taskbar, and they should
choose a desktop environment that (at least optionally) provides one.
Other people don't want a panel with a taskbar, and they should choose
a desktop environment that (at least optionally) doesn't provide one.
Similar considerations apply to various other UI/UX features.
What is it that you aim for desktop environments to agree on?
One of the major topics for freedesktop.org is arranging that an
application that wants to do something can use the same code for multiple
desktop environments (for instance, an application can get itself listed
among other applications by installing a single .desktop file that works
approximately the same in GNOME, KDE, etc., instead of having to install
a .gnomeapp file and a .kdeapp file and so on). What application-facing
functionality do you aim to standardize?
(In particular, when an application installs a .desktop file, there is
no guarantee that it will be presented in the same way in all desktop
environments: KDE shows it among other apps in a hierarchical menu,
whereas GNOME shows it among other apps in a flat, searchable list in
the overview. Both are equally acceptable from the point of view of
the Desktop Entry specification, and whether you prefer KDE's design or
GNOME's design should be a factor in whether you choose to use KDE or
GNOME or something else.)
smcv
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xdg mailing list
https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xdg

_______________________________________________
xdg mailing list
https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xdg