Contributor convenant

[mdn]

Hello,
Today I have been informed that the CoC named the "Contributor
convenant" has been added to the freedesktop.org wiki.
https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/CodeOfConduct/

I am surprised to see such liberticide rules were applied and I was
looking to see if there was any discussion about it.
The only discussion that I have found in the mailing list is from 2014:
https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/create/2014-May/thread.html#4984

I don't say that the CoC by itself has bad intentions but the way it is
often used are unethical and counter productive.

Examples of that is described by EsR is the kafkatrap problem:
http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=2122
and the honey trap that was tried some time ago against Mr.Torvalds:
http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=6907

For a more recent example their was also the Drupal community that
persecuted one of their members because of personal private matters that
wasn't interfering with the said community.
https://www.garfieldtech.com/blog/tmi-outing
They outed that person because of irrelevant data and their own
politics/ideology.
And they even transgressed their own CoC for that.

I would like to discuss this subject because it is likely that multiple
projects on freedesktop will be stirred for external ideologies and will
bring upon themselves the same problems (if not worse) that was brought
on many other projects or developers who acknowledged to impose a CoC
that provides unjust power to those who seeks to use it.

I wish you all a good day.
Freely
BERNARD

[Albert Astals Cid]

Post by mdn
Hello,
Today I have been informed that the CoC named the "Contributor
convenant" has been added to the freedesktop.org wiki.
https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/CodeOfConduct/

As a freedesktop project maintainer i find this very sad.

I don't disagree with having a Code of Conduct, but creating one and forcing
it without any kind of input from the community is totally *bad* conduct.

Albert

P.S: If this was discussed somewhere please point me where, it may just be
that i'm a bad maintainer and i'm not subscribed to the proper places.

[mdn]

Post by Albert Astals Cid

Post by mdn
Hello,
Today I have been informed that the CoC named the "Contributor
convenant" has been added to the freedesktop.org wiki.
https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/CodeOfConduct/

As a freedesktop project maintainer i find this very sad.
I don't disagree with having a Code of Conduct, but creating one and forcing
it without any kind of input from the community is totally *bad* conduct.

You can never make people do anything.
--Marshall B. Rosenberg

Surely no bad intentions were in mind.

Post by Albert Astals Cid
Albert
P.S: If this was discussed somewhere please point me where, it may just be
that i'm a bad maintainer and i'm not subscribed to the proper places.
_______________________________________________
xdg mailing list
https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xdg

[Philipp A.]

i’m sure they weren’t. neither by those who wrote the contributor covenant,
nor by those who committed it here.

i see the problems you mentioned, and one more: the CC doesn’t prevent
bullying, it just forces bullies to act differently. instead of using
hurtful language, they just have to come up with believable accusations
against the victim, and the CC will require to treat those alleged
perpetrators with extreme prejudice. if anything, this makes bullying more
effective: assholes using hurtful language can be called out. assholes who
throw around baseless accusations usually can’t, and the CC asks others to
support accusers.

as long as people are sensible and not sticklers to the rules, this is no
issue. but in that case, not using any CC or just laying down some basic
rules will be enough as well.

best, philipp

Post by Albert Astals Cid

Post by Albert Astals Cid

Post by mdn
Hello,
Today I have been informed that the CoC named the "Contributor
convenant" has been added to the freedesktop.org wiki.
https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/CodeOfConduct/

As a freedesktop project maintainer i find this very sad.
I don't disagree with having a Code of Conduct, but creating one and

forcing

Post by Albert Astals Cid
it without any kind of input from the community is totally *bad* conduct.

You can never make people do anything.
--Marshall B. Rosenberg
Surely no bad intentions were in mind.

Post by Albert Astals Cid
Albert
P.S: If this was discussed somewhere please point me where, it may just

be

Post by Albert Astals Cid
that i'm a bad maintainer and i'm not subscribed to the proper places.
_______________________________________________
xdg mailing list
https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xdg

_______________________________________________
xdg mailing list
https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xdg

[mdn]

Post by Philipp A.
i’m sure they weren’t. neither by those who wrote the contributor
covenant, nor by those who committed it here.
i see the problems you mentioned, and one more: the CC doesn’t prevent
bullying, it just forces bullies to act differently.

Indeed.
But it goes further than that.
These rules if followed to the letter are what stops people from evolving.
By evolving I mean the simple fact of having experience from possible
events.
It's some sort of Darwinism but of the mind.
How can one gain experience if everything can be seen has bad ?
How do we strengthen our minds if we constantly shelter ourselves ?

Post by Philipp A.
instead of using hurtful language, they just have to come up with believable accusations
against the victim, and the CC will require to treat those alleged
perpetrators with extreme prejudice. if anything, this makes bullying
more effective: assholes using hurtful language can be called out.
assholes who throw around baseless accusations usually can’t, and the CC
asks others to support accusers.
as long as people are sensible and not sticklers to the rules, this is
no issue. but in that case, not using any CC or just laying down some
basic rules will be enough as well.

Some people will call that common sense.
Most of the rules of the CC are already in the laws.
And there's a reasons that our ancestors haven't put some of them in it.
And even with these laws it isn't stopping people from going over it.
There is actually no way to stop people but the one of education and
argumentation.
Speech must bring more speech, not enforced silence.
We have to learn to put up with the fact that some people say things
that we don't like.
We can only live together in that way; if we are to live together and
not die together.

Post by Philipp A.
best, philipp

Post by Albert Astals Cid

Post by mdn
Hello,
Today I have been informed that the CoC named the "Contributor
convenant" has been added to the freedesktop.org

<http://freedesktop.org> wiki.

Post by Albert Astals Cid

Post by mdn
https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/CodeOfConduct/

As a freedesktop project maintainer i find this very sad.
I don't disagree with having a Code of Conduct, but creating one

and forcing

Post by Albert Astals Cid
it without any kind of input from the community is totally *bad*

conduct.
You can never make people do anything.
--Marshall B. Rosenberg
Surely no bad intentions were in mind.

Post by Albert Astals Cid
Albert
P.S: If this was discussed somewhere please point me where, it may

just be

Post by Albert Astals Cid
that i'm a bad maintainer and i'm not subscribed to the proper places.
_______________________________________________
xdg mailing list
https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xdg

_______________________________________________
xdg mailing list
https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xdg

Freely
BERNARD