Adding an Accessibility Category to the Desktop Menu Specification?

[Samuel Thibault]

Hello,

We need a place for people to find accessibility helpers such as screen
readers, magnifiers, etc. Hiding them into "Settings", "System", or
"Utility" does not seem appropriate to me, it makes them not easily
accessible (sic).

The desktops which care about accessibility have a dedicated
"Accessibility" menu, so it seems reasonable to me that the Desktop Menu
Specification follows this trend.

Samuel

[Bastien Nocera]

Post by Samuel Thibault
Hello,
We need a place for people to find accessibility helpers such as screen
readers, magnifiers, etc. Hiding them into "Settings", "System", or
"Utility" does not seem appropriate to me, it makes them not easily
accessible (sic).

In GNOME, the "universal access" settings are listed in the search
results, along with keywords like screen readers, etc.

We also prefer to have any accessibility utilities integrated directly
in the Settings panel, instead of launching separate applications. This
is the reason why we removed the orca launcher in GNOME now.

Post by Samuel Thibault
The desktops which care about accessibility have a dedicated
"Accessibility" menu, so it seems reasonable to me that the Desktop Menu
Specification follows this trend.

GNOME doesn't even have sub menus.

[Jerome Leclanche]

Post by Bastien Nocera

Post by Samuel Thibault
Hello,
We need a place for people to find accessibility helpers such as screen
readers, magnifiers, etc. Hiding them into "Settings", "System", or
"Utility" does not seem appropriate to me, it makes them not easily
accessible (sic).

In GNOME, the "universal access" settings are listed in the search
results, along with keywords like screen readers, etc.
We also prefer to have any accessibility utilities integrated directly
in the Settings panel, instead of launching separate applications. This
is the reason why we removed the orca launcher in GNOME now.

Post by Samuel Thibault
The desktops which care about accessibility have a dedicated
"Accessibility" menu, so it seems reasonable to me that the Desktop Menu
Specification follows this trend.

GNOME doesn't even have sub menus.
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I'm +1 on adding an Accessibility category.

J. Leclanche

[Samuel Thibault]

Hello,

Post by Bastien Nocera

Post by Samuel Thibault
We need a place for people to find accessibility helpers such as screen
readers, magnifiers, etc. Hiding them into "Settings", "System", or
"Utility" does not seem appropriate to me, it makes them not easily
accessible (sic).

In GNOME, the "universal access" settings are listed in the search
results, along with keywords like screen readers, etc.

That's for a search-like desktop. I am talking about desktops which
provide a start menu.

Post by Bastien Nocera
We also prefer to have any accessibility utilities integrated directly
in the Settings panel,

Yes, that makes perfect sense.

Post by Bastien Nocera
instead of launching separate applications.

There are still a lot of accessibility-oriented applications which don't
fit that way. For instance the accerciser tool, dasher, gespeaker, ...

Post by Bastien Nocera

Post by Samuel Thibault
The desktops which care about accessibility have a dedicated
"Accessibility" menu, so it seems reasonable to me that the Desktop Menu
Specification follows this trend.

GNOME doesn't even have sub menus.

That's one desktop. A lot of desktops have sub menus.

Samuel

[Samuel Thibault]

Post by Bastien Nocera
We also prefer to have any accessibility utilities integrated directly
in the Settings panel, instead of launching separate applications. This
is the reason why we removed the orca launcher in GNOME now.

Thinking again about it, this makes unattended launches more difficult.
Such launches can be useful when a sighted user is working, and a
non-sighted co-worker comes to work over something. Starting the screen
reader from a launcher just for the time when he is there, and not
permanently through configuration, makes complete sense.

Samuel

[Stefan Blachmann]

If I understand Sam correctly, his suggestion is about adding an
additional category Utilities→Accessibility. (see
https://standards.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/latest/apas02.html )

First, Gnome and KDE are not xdg menu specification compliant.
Second, these DEs have a settings menu. Window managers like FVWM do
not have such.
Thus, Gnome and KDE advocates should be aware that this is an issue
that does affect only people that do _not_ use DEs.

Thus imho it makes perfect sense and is actually overdue to add such a
subcategory “Accessibility” to the xdg menu spec.

Post by Samuel Thibault

Post by Bastien Nocera
We also prefer to have any accessibility utilities integrated directly
in the Settings panel, instead of launching separate applications. This
is the reason why we removed the orca launcher in GNOME now.

Thinking again about it, this makes unattended launches more difficult.
Such launches can be useful when a sighted user is working, and a
non-sighted co-worker comes to work over something. Starting the screen
reader from a launcher just for the time when he is there, and not
permanently through configuration, makes complete sense.
Samuel
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[Stefan Blachmann]

I have to correct myself, sorry.

Post by Stefan Blachmann
Thus, Gnome and KDE advocates should be aware that this is an
issue that does affect only people that do _not_ use DEs.

This is wrong.

Post by Stefan Blachmann
Thinking again about it, this makes unattended launches more difficult.
Such launches can be useful when a sighted user is working, and a
non-sighted co-worker comes to work over something. Starting the screen
reader from a launcher just for the time when he is there, and not
permanently through configuration, makes complete sense.

Let me explain this problem using another disability as example. As I am deaf,
I have to use screen flashing utilities as a replacement for the beeper.
(See here for example:
http://serverfault.com/questions/19743/is-there-a-visual-bell-in-linux-that-works-in-x
)
Thus if I have to do things on another ones' computer account which
require me to
notice beeps I would be forced to change settings, and change them back to
original settings after finishing. In other words, I would be forced
to change the
system configuration _twice_.
If I could just go the menu path Utility->Accessibility->Visual_Bell
to run the utility,
then there won't be any need to tamper with the system configuration.

Thus a category "Accessibility" makes perfect sense imho.

Post by Stefan Blachmann
If I understand Sam correctly, his suggestion is about adding an
additional category Utilities→Accessibility. (see
https://standards.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/latest/apas02.html )
First, Gnome and KDE are not xdg menu specification compliant.
Second, these DEs have a settings menu. Window managers like FVWM do
not have such.
Thus, Gnome and KDE advocates should be aware that this is an issue
that does affect only people that do _not_ use DEs.
Thus imho it makes perfect sense and is actually overdue to add such a
subcategory “Accessibility” to the xdg menu spec.

Post by Samuel Thibault

Post by Bastien Nocera
We also prefer to have any accessibility utilities integrated directly
in the Settings panel, instead of launching separate applications. This
is the reason why we removed the orca launcher in GNOME now.

Thinking again about it, this makes unattended launches more difficult.
Such launches can be useful when a sighted user is working, and a
non-sighted co-worker comes to work over something. Starting the screen
reader from a launcher just for the time when he is there, and not
permanently through configuration, makes complete sense.
Samuel
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